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Post by brp on Mar 3, 2024 11:03:30 GMT -5
This is really not Disney-specific since a number of lines run river cruises. But I know that is a knowledgeable and trustworthy cohort, so a good place to discuss this.
We will be doing something similar (Croatia coast and not actually a river) in August and are looking at river cruises beyond that. We'll not book until after that one just to be sure we like it. But never to early to find out more.
Looking about, we're leaning toward Viking River Cruises, but Disney seem similar.
The cruise type we're looking at is like 190 people, so not huge.
One question I have off the bat is about shore excursions. Is it typically the case that these comprise a group of like 200 people and a guide or two with an umbrella, maybe headsets, traipsing through the streets of Europe?
We've seen these when traveling and they do not look like fun. Is this what things tend to be like, or are there other ways to do this that may be more self-guided (with admissions and such covered by the cruise) rather than a throng?
Of course, all river cruise comments/questions welcome.
Cheers.
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Post by johnb on Mar 3, 2024 11:17:07 GMT -5
I have no Europe experience, but years ago when we did a Caribbean cruise, we did some research and found a tour guide on Antigua who did small tours. He had a van/bus that sat approximately 10-12 people; as we drove around the island, the driver/tour guide told us about the history, the culture, etc. We made stops where we had time to explore on our own for 30-60 minutes. It was perfect.
I'm thinking that there have got to be similar tours/guides in Europe.
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Post by brp on Mar 3, 2024 11:30:36 GMT -5
Thanks. That sounds more like what we'd be interested in. The problem I see so far (in non-extensive research) is that these European river cruises tend to include shore excursions, so we're paying for them. I'd prefer if they had smaller groups within that, but not sure. We could bypass the offered tour and do our own thing, of course, but then we're throwing some money away.
Cheers.
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Post by jedimom3 on Mar 3, 2024 11:33:39 GMT -5
I've become a bit obsessed in the last couple of years about taking a European river cruise, and have spent WAY too much time watching vlogs about them all. DH says we must get our London trip done first, and that will likely be in 2025, so hopefully cruising after that. Just got a new brochure booklet in the mail yesterday from Viking, and that's where we're leaning so far, but after watching several cruise vloggers discuss Avalon, and Ama, those are both strong contenders. We want more of an itinerary that is based on historical sites, museums, castles, cathedrals, etc. and things like biking, or activity based. It seems Viking offers choices of excursions for the mornings, that are included, but also excursions that are at an additional cost, and the option to skip. Ama and Avalon had similar offerings, but maybe more included. Would have to check. I've not used a travel agent, but there's a youtube channel that features several that have been pretty informative: www.youtube.com/@askarealtravelexpertrealtravelexperts.com. They seem to push non Viking, but they had a lot of interesting info. There are a few that compare each line. I also have watched several by Gary Bembridge on his Tips for Travellers channel, but he does all cruises, not just river, but he's a fairly recent one on river cruising, there are other really good cruise vloggers who will do a river cruise from time to time, but you have to wade through the rest to find that content. Innocents Abroad, Paul and Carole love to travel, Emma Cruises,etc. but again, have to dig around for the river cruise content. Will also be following this thread, for anyone who has had experience. Best wishes with all the planning I have a good friend taking the Viking cruise in a few months, through Normandy, to/from Paris. I can't wait to hear about their experiences. |
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Post by brp on Mar 3, 2024 11:54:26 GMT -5
I've become a bit obsessed in the last couple of years about taking a European river cruise, and have spent WAY too much time watching vlogs about them all. DH says we must get our London trip done first, and that will likely be in 2025, so hopefully cruising after that. Just got a new brochure booklet in the mail yesterday from Viking, and that's where we're leaning so far, but after watching several cruise vloggers discuss Avalon, and Ama, those are both strong contenders. We want more of an itinerary that is based on historical sites, museums, castles, cathedrals, etc. and things like biking, or activity based. It seems Viking offers choices of excursions for the mornings, that are included, but also excursions that are at an additional cost, and the option to skip. Ama and Avalon had similar offerings, but maybe more included. Thanks for this. Disney uses Ama, at least for the routes we looked at, and their reviews were also very good. Viking, as I understand, it all adults-only and Ama may not be. I know that looking through ABD showed a more limited selection of adult-only. Your tour ideas are what we would look for as well. We have traveled in Europe quite a bit and this is what we do on our own, and are very comfortable doing that. A knowledgeable guide in a small group would be cool as well.
We have two Europe trips in 2024 (Croatia and Strassbourg, FR), so this would be 2025. Since we won't book until after the August Croatia trip, the availability may be lower, so this could be 2026.
Looking at Avalon on www.cruisecritic.com, they also get high marks, along with Disney/Ama and Viking. A number of choices to research. I just looked into Avalon, and they seem to be a fair bit higher-priced than Viking/Ama. Multiple excursion options in each location.
Ever since we saw ads for Vikijng while watching Downton Abbey on PBS years ago (the only commercial in the whole show), they've stuck in our mind. But that may not be the best reason to choose 
Cheers.
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Post by nickys on Mar 3, 2024 12:38:40 GMT -5
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Post by brp on Mar 3, 2024 12:51:48 GMT -5
Thanks! I see nothing on the No list that is not just what we want. This helps the choice a lot!
Cheers.
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Post by baymaxfan on Mar 3, 2024 13:31:49 GMT -5
Thanks! I see nothing on the No list that is not just what we want. This helps the choice a lot!
Cheers.
There is nothing particularly special about this “NO list.” With the exception of no children under the age of 18, this pretty describes every reputable river cruise line. |
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Post by brp on Mar 3, 2024 13:56:10 GMT -5
Thanks! I see nothing on the No list that is not just what we want. This helps the choice a lot!
Cheers.
There is nothing particularly special about this “NO list.” With the exception of no children under the age of 18, this pretty describes every reputable river cruise line. I figured some might have the "additions" listed there. But the "no kinds" part is the big one anyway.
With a caveat: While the reviews I've seen for Viking are folks in their 60s (like us), it surely will skew older. And that also likely means excursions that are more sedate and less active.
Avalon, for example, has two choices per stop: One active, the other more passive. Active is hiking or biking to some destination. And these are the sorts of things we prefer. So an older-skewed adults-only, while appealing for the lack of kids, may have some less than ideal aspects.
Cheers.
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Post by nickys on Mar 3, 2024 14:46:33 GMT -5
Thanks! I see nothing on the No list that is not just what we want. This helps the choice a lot!
Cheers.
There is nothing particularly special about this “NO list.” With the exception of no children under the age of 18, this pretty describes every reputable river cruise line. We did a Nile cruise for our honeymoon. They definitely did cocktails, that seems a strange “no” to me. I don’t see what’s “unreputeable” about cocktails. Same for formal nights and white gloves - all our servers wore white gloves and we did have a formal night for those who wanted it (there was an early buffet dinner for those that didn’t).  I guess wifi is standard these days for European river cruises at least. We didn’t even have a mobile signal but there was a telephone we could use at the concierge desk if we needed to. And there was a smoking area on deck too. Seems a bit extreme to have no smoking anywhere. |
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Post by Eli's Nana on Mar 3, 2024 20:59:49 GMT -5
We have also never done a river cruise, but this year is our 45th anniversary and we are booked on a Viking River Cruise in June going through Bordeaux (8 days). Once we are back I can give you more detail. We are almost mid 60’s and have friends who have done this particular cruise and a couple others in Europe and have given us a lot of feedback. They do highly recommend Viking so we went with them, though the others you mention all looked good to us also.
We liked the idea of it being more low-key, small ship (holds 170) and passengers needing to be over 18. As far as the excursions go, on Viking one is included each day, and there were between one and three choices. Some are walking tours of the town or city you are docked in, others a chance to visit various tourist destinations. We have chosen a couple of those, but we also are paying for a couple of excursions that involve e-biking through the countryside to a given chateau or winery. Neither of us have ever ridden e-bikes so my husband thinks we need to rent a couple up in Denver to learn and practice. The two excursions we chose were not very pricey, but there are others that were more - truffle hunting, harvesting your own oysters, a specialty cognac tasting. Our friends said the walking tours were done by Viking staff and the groups were usually around 10 or so. Additionally there are talks and demonstrations and cooking classes on board that are all included.
Regarding beverages, wine and beer are included with lunch and dinner and soft drinks, coffee drinks, water are all included and unlimited. They do offer an upgrade option of $175 per person for unlimited alcoholic beverages for the entire cruise. It includes cocktails, spirits, upgraded spirits as well as upgraded options for beer, wine and bottles of wine and champagne. We have not decided yet on adding that. We need to sit down and see if it would be worth it compared to the “by drink” price. We also think we may be bringing wine on board from out excursions that we would like to drink. There are no corkage fees for BYO. The ships have a number of great outdoor places to relax and enjoy, additionally there are both an indoor dining option as well as an outdoor seating area for meals. There is a bar/lounge area as well. Hope this helps!
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Post by baymaxfan on Mar 3, 2024 21:27:37 GMT -5
There is nothing particularly special about this “NO list.” With the exception of no children under the age of 18, this pretty describes every reputable river cruise line. We did a Nile cruise for our honeymoon. They definitely did cocktails, that seems a strange “no” to me. I don’t see what’s “unreputeable” about cocktails. Same for formal nights and white gloves - all our servers wore white gloves and we did have a formal night for those who wanted it (there was an early buffet dinner for those that didn’t). I guess wifi is standard these days for European river cruises at least. We didn’t even have a mobile signal but there was a telephone we could use at the concierge desk if we needed to. And there was a smoking area on deck too. Seems a bit extreme to have no smoking anywhere. By reputable, I meant most of the known river cruise operators in Europe will have the same "NO list." I was not suggesting that anything on or not on the list is not reputable. Cocktails does not show up anywhere on the "NO list," so I'm not sure where that is coming from. Cocktails are served on the ships. I was just trying to point out that Viking isn't really much different from the other known river cruise operators. Viking did have one slight advantage. They own a lot of the docks on the Rhine, meaning they get the better docks that are closer in. As for as what BRP is saying, I have also seen the large groups from the river cruises trekking through the city with their guide. This was NOT our experience on AMA with ABD. Those 6 Disney guides broke us into groups so, depending on the activity, there were usually anywhere from a few to up to 30 in a group. And as I mentioned earlier, AMA with ABD has activities all day (where as AMA without ABD only usually includes an AM activity just like Viking and others). We did have some fairly active activities like a reasonably steep hike near Heidelberg or a 4-hour bike ride along the Danube - on these activities, it was usually the teens, young adults, and more fit older folk. In fact, our 4-hour bike ride turned into a ride as fast as we could as it started pouring rain about 30 minutes into the ride. There was no turning back as the ship had already left dock and we had to meet it many miles downstream to get back on. We were drenched head to toe, but it was such a memorable ride. I have absolutely nothing against Viking, AMA without ABD, or any of the other river cruise operators. I guess I had such an amazing experience that it is hard for me to be unbiased when speaking about AMA with ABD. |
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Post by brp on Mar 3, 2024 21:50:44 GMT -5
We did a Nile cruise for our honeymoon. They definitely did cocktails, that seems a strange “no” to me. I don’t see what’s “unreputeable” about cocktails. Same for formal nights and white gloves - all our servers wore white gloves and we did have a formal night for those who wanted it (there was an early buffet dinner for those that didn’t). I guess wifi is standard these days for European river cruises at least. We didn’t even have a mobile signal but there was a telephone we could use at the concierge desk if we needed to. And there was a smoking area on deck too. Seems a bit extreme to have no smoking anywhere. I have absolutely nothing against Viking, AMA without ABD, or any of the other river cruise operators. I guess I had such an amazing experience that it is hard for me to be unbiased when speaking about AMA with ABD. Thanks for the comments. This is most helpful. The idea of having only AM excursions and leaving us on our own for the afternoon is actually preferable for us. And I know that one need not go on them, but having them is not a plus, and that seems the primary advantage of Ama with ABD from your posting.Realistically, it would take a lot of of pluses on the Ama/ABD thing to make up for the kids, so this is likely not in the running for us. I would expect a non ABD Ama to have fewer kids just because it's not Disney, even if allowed.
The drink option is a possibility for me, assuming that it can be done for only one person. mrs. brp doesn't drink.
Eli's Nana - I do look forward to hearing your review when you get back, on the trip and the drink option
Cheers.
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Post by bakerworld on Mar 4, 2024 10:44:10 GMT -5
I do like an excursion per day. I like letting someone else do all the excursion research and all I have to do is make a decision. Then having accomplished the excursion I am completely guilt free to relax the rest of the day - being it in a lounge or napping. Our youngest would rather relax all day but I do find that boring day after day.
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Post by captjacksfamily on Mar 4, 2024 12:35:05 GMT -5
We have done four river cruises and it is my preferred way to see Europe. We have done 3 Christmas market cruises (two on the Rhine and one on the Danube), and our fourth was a couple of days in Paris and then a cruise on the Rhone. The Christmas Market cruise were pre-Covid and the Rhone cruise was just as the world was opening up again after COVID. We are going to redo the Rhone trip in May because we loved the cruise and we are bringing our daughter (adult) along. The companies we have use are Crystal, Tauck, and AMA. The way we look at cruises is that we look at boat life and excursions separately. Boat includes food, drink, staff and rooms. Excursions are based on quality of the destinations and guides. Review of the cruise companies we have used: Crystal Cruises - Rhine Christmas Market (which was also the first trip to Europe for us) plus Christmas Markets on the Danube. Reviewing Crystal is kind of a moot point since Crystal didn't survive COVID. Their ocean boats were bought and the brand restarted but the river boats were sold to Riverside Luxury Cruises who was just now starting to schedule river boat tours. Crystal Cruises was by far the best boat experience and either the best or second best (to Tauck) for excursions. If they were still going we would be booking on Crystal. Tauck - Tauck does not own any boats (same as ABD) and I can't remember the name of the boat company they use but Tauck takes over the boat providing their own tour director and guides. The boat life is good, probably on the same level as AMA. The Tauck tour we took was a food focus trip that spent a couple of days in Paris and then took the train to Lyon for a seven day cruise on the Rhone starting and returning to from Lyon. The excursions were excellent and there were usually options which help keep the group size down. The guides were extremely knowledgeable and did an excellent job. Tauck's main business is land tours and we have done a few of the those and they are also excellent. Going forward we will probably focus on using Tauck. AMA - Also an excellent cruise, this was another Christmas market cruise on the Rhine. They have a couple of special dining opportunities and staff was friendly and efficient. The excursions were lacking behind the others but not by much. The one nice thing is that they offered different ability options such as "The Philosophers Walk" in Heidelberg. As I remember it was about 4 miles and 300m elevation gain. It was a gorgeous hike and the views well worth it. The other was an option to walk to a town or take the bus. The hike was fairly fast paced but it really gave you an opportunity to see the area not just the town. While I said we will probably focus on Tauck, AMA wouldn't make us mad either. We know people who have done Viking and have enjoyed it but we have not used them. One reason is that they carry about 190 guests, AMA sells out at around 150 and Tauck limits theirs to 130. Crystal held theirs to <100 as a comparison (really too bad we lost them). What we look for: Number of guests on board Quality and destinations Rooms with the beds that face out (not parallel to the windows). Food opportunities (ok we are into food and wine sue us ) The decor, we looked at one that sounded great but when we looked at the boat pictures it looked like a turn of the century brothel. All inclusive, which most seem to be. They all also have optional upgrades for top shelf liquor and wine. If you have a favorite bottle most if not all allow you to bring alcohol on board. We look at agendas that are adult oriented, ABD does have adult only trip and Tauck does offer "Family" trips. We don't necessarily look for trips that don't allow kids but we have never really run across them as guests. We did one Tauck land trip and there were some on the trip that were there as High School graduation presents and they were extremely well mannered and a plus to the group. Some things that are in the brochures: Some of the cruises are out and back routes but several are one way and they run the trip going in both directions. One thing to think about on the one way trips is that on the trips going against the current the boat will go slower meaning you may spend slightly more time on board. The ones running with the current must maintain a speed higher than the current to maintain steering so you may spend slightly more time at destinations. We have either done out and backs (Danube and Rhone) or against the current but we have been told by people who have done both it is noticeable. If you are doing a winter trip such as Christmas Markets (love the Christmas Market cruises..) it may be very cold and the top deck may be closed for a good portion of the trip due to being iced over and slippery. So all those really cool pictures of people up on the lounge chairs sipping their cocktails may not happen in the winter... Most of the cruising will be done in the evening, the exception that we have seen is the Rhine trip were they all seem to plan a boat day to cruise the Rhine Gorge which is where all the castles are. Most provide binoculars but I would suggest bring your own if you have a good set with image stabilization. We often get asked which of the Christmas Market cruises we like best. That would be the Rhine, it seems like there is more diversity in the cities along the Rhine and the markets seem a little brighter and festive. That being said we love Vienna at Christmas, so much so we added it on to the end of our second Rhine cruise. I would also suggest a side trip to Lucerne and a trip up Mt Pilatus. In most cases we will use "tours by locals" on our side trips and if your cruise ends in Basel you can find one that will pick you up from the boat for the tour. There are few if any glamorous docks set up for the cruise ships, you will more often than not tie up along the river and a gang plank is tossed out. You can generally leave the boats at anytime so if you want to take a run (looking at you brp..) go for it, I would check in with the crew for routes and any areas that they would suggest you avoid. Some boats will send you out with a crew member probably more to make sure you don't get lost than safety. |
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