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Post by helenabear on Oct 1, 2024 9:06:51 GMT -5
I know what you mean, but I also suspect the majority of guests still know nothing, or very little, about DVC. Undoubtedly true, including things like the whole concept of resale. Very likely why resale restrictions are not a factor in slowing RR sales, for example. Cheers. Oh, but they are! We've shown you the numbers proving it too. The younger generations know how to search well. Gen Z is more likely to research before purchasing than any other generation out there. I'm sure Millennials do decent too. Quick google shows about 80% research before buying bigger items. |
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Post by brp on Oct 1, 2024 9:23:04 GMT -5
Undoubtedly true, including things like the whole concept of resale. Very likely why resale restrictions are not a factor in slowing RR sales, for example. Cheers. Oh, but they are! We've shown you the numbers proving it too. The younger generations know how to search well. Gen Z is more likely to research before purchasing than any other generation out there. I'm sure Millennials do decent too. Quick google shows about 80% research before buying bigger items. I've seen the speculative numbers and they were not convincing, certainly not proof. The most convincing thing I saw here was from someone who had a personal friend in sales who indicated that this restriction was not mentioned much. For me, that's the only actual data point I've seen.
Only data from real potential purchasers (and not self-selected folks on chat boards) or people within the sales organization is credible. I've seen one data point from that category.
But we can continue to agree to disagree 
Cheers.
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Post by helenabear on Oct 1, 2024 9:28:45 GMT -5
Oh, but they are! We've shown you the numbers proving it too. The younger generations know how to search well. Gen Z is more likely to research before purchasing than any other generation out there. I'm sure Millennials do decent too. Quick google shows about 80% research before buying bigger items. I've seen the speculative numbers and they were not convincing, certainly not proof. The most convincing thing I saw here was from someone who had a personal friend in sales who indicated that this restriction was not mentioned much. For me, that's the only actual data point I've seen. Only data from real potential purchasers (and not self-selected folks on chat boards) or people within the sales organization is credible. I've seen one data point from that category. But we can continue to agree to disagree Cheers. We gave you numbers of actual sales from the organization showing average number of points sold and how long to sell those points totals. Not sure how that's neither convincing nor what you stated (and unless they poll every person at an exit interview to see reasons why they buy - or sell - potential buyer talk is purely anecdotal). I even compared SSR numbers during the height of a massive recession to Riviera. It still outsold Riviera. Choose to believe what you want, but facts are facts. Much better than a sales person telling you what you want to hear. |
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Post by Adelard of Bath on Oct 1, 2024 9:36:05 GMT -5
- in this case feeling we got tooooooo many DVC resorts and owners at WDW  Yeah too many of those darn pesky owners! Just yesterday I commented to wife how fun it would be to get in a time machine and go see Disney the way it was in these home movies from 1971 72 etc, friggin ghost town compared to now, that's for sure. |
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Post by brp on Oct 1, 2024 9:37:25 GMT -5
I've seen the speculative numbers and they were not convincing, certainly not proof. The most convincing thing I saw here was from someone who had a personal friend in sales who indicated that this restriction was not mentioned much. For me, that's the only actual data point I've seen. Only data from real potential purchasers (and not self-selected folks on chat boards) or people within the sales organization is credible. I've seen one data point from that category. But we can continue to agree to disagree Cheers. We gave you numbers of actual sales from the organization showing average number of points sold and how long to sell those points totals. Not sure how that's neither convincing nor what you stated (and unless they poll every person at an exit interview to see reasons why they buy - or sell - potential buyer talk is purely anecdotal). I even compared SSR numbers during the height of a massive recession to Riviera. It still outsold Riviera. Choose to believe what you want, but facts are facts. Much better than a sales person telling you what you want to hear. Yes, I saw the numbers. Number of points sold says nothing about the reasons. There are a number of plausible reasons for the slow sales. Correlation does not imply causation. So that's why this is not compelling.
As to SSR, as was pointed out several times, the situation was very different in that there were many fewer DVC resorts. Comparing apples and ocelots is not a valid technique for data analysis. Riviera is quite lacking compared to other locations and, it would seem, others feel this way too and are not buying.
Nothing above points to a reason.
Yes, discussions with sales folks is anecdotal. And I generally trust a timeshare salesweasel as far as I can throw one. In this case, it was a personal friend with absolutely nothing to gain by providing misinformation (unlike a sales presentation). And it is the only data, even though a small set, that points to the actual impact of the restrictions on decisions.
So, yes, I have seen the numbers and they provide no data on reason while someone within the system providing data on a reason does.
Again, we can agree to disagree on this. if there are real data (not speculative assertions), I'm certainly open to changing my mind. I've seen one data point so far.
Cheers.
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Post by helenabear on Oct 1, 2024 9:51:25 GMT -5
- in this case feeling we got tooooooo many DVC resorts and owners at WDW Yeah too many of those darn pesky owners! Just yesterday I commented to wife how fun it would be to get in a time machine and go see Disney the way it was in these home movies from 1971 72 etc, friggin ghost town compared to now, that's for sure. Mine only start 42 years ago. But still pretty empty by comparison. Speaking of which, Happy Birthday Walt Disney World. We gave you numbers of actual sales from the organization showing average number of points sold and how long to sell those points totals. Not sure how that's neither convincing nor what you stated (and unless they poll every person at an exit interview to see reasons why they buy - or sell - potential buyer talk is purely anecdotal). I even compared SSR numbers during the height of a massive recession to Riviera. It still outsold Riviera. Choose to believe what you want, but facts are facts. Much better than a sales person telling you what you want to hear. Yes, I saw the numbers. Number of points sold says nothing about the reasons. There are a number of plausible reasons for the slow sales. Correlation does not imply causation. So that's why this is not compelling. As to SSR, as was pointed out several times, the situation was very different in that there were many fewer DVC resorts. Comparing apples and ocelots is not a valid technique for data analysis. Nothing above points to a reason.
Yes, discussions with sales folks is anecdotal. And I generally trust a timeshare salesweasel as far as I can throw one. In this case, it was a personal friend with absolutely nothing to gain by providing misinformation (unlike a sales presentation). And it is the only data, even though a small set, that points to the actual impact of the restrictions on decisions. So, yes, I have seen the numbers and they provide no data on reason while someone within the system providing data on a reason does. Again, we can agree to disagree on this. if there are real data (not speculative assertions), I'm certainly open to changing my mind. I've seen one data point so far. Cheers. We can agree to disagree. But I won't agree that the one anecdotal evidence you saw here is valid or accurate. Especially since they have models to view and sales decreased. I think really too many here assume buyers are not researching. I promise you they are. My generation won't even buy earbuds without a solid review. Heck I won't buy USB cords without research. When you get the ability to easily research during younger years or your lifetime, you use it always. |
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Post by BWV Dreamin on Oct 1, 2024 11:28:22 GMT -5
“Correlation does not imply causation.”. Quote for the day!!!!!
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Post by helenabear on Oct 1, 2024 12:14:13 GMT -5
“Correlation does not imply causation.”. Quote for the day!!!!! ... until it is established through tests or experimentations. Gonna just toss out I prefer numbers and I have seen data that erased a lot and did comparisons of different resorts and how they sold over the years to not believe that 5.5 years into this that there aren't legitimate causes for Riviera sales being slow. There isn't just restrictions for some to look at (locations, point charts, room offerings all play in) but it is a major factor since the other issues are really not strong compared to other locations sold recently when you compare like for like. Aulani has its own issue of location and higher non subsidized fees. The desire of west coasters and eastern Asian population was over estimated so they did more than they should have. Just like cabins you have the negatives in no particular order: Location Transportation Room layout/offerings Amenities of resort High starting maintenance fees Resale restrictions Trust If it had half as many of those issues, it would sell better. As of now a dismal 1.6% sold is all you will get. |
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Post by baymaxfan on Oct 1, 2024 13:18:09 GMT -5
Disney will always be packed - thanks to dvc. But at some point, supply will pass demand if they keep building on every buildable spot in WDW. I wish they put a DVC resort where the swan reserve is - but i know that land is leased to the realty company that built the boardwalk area. Disney has discovered the dvc cash cow and they are going to continue to cash in as much as they can. Hopefully Reflections will be the last MK resort. I wish disney would look to other area (have said before) to build, boston, NYC, DC, NH, CO, ect. maybe have a national parks dvc resort where they build resorts near the parks. Something different. As someone else said, Aulani taught them to never build a resort somewhere without a park. Oh, and Vero Beach and HH, too. Yes, I know that HH is popular, but only during certain times. There are times of the year when cash price for HH is lower than DVC points cost. Seasonality is essentially the problem. How do you keep people coming to a timeshare during off times? I, too, wish there were move DVCs in non-park locations. It's just not going to happen anytime soon. Now, perhaps, if DVC completely maxes out at park locations, it could happen. |
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Post by BWV Dreamin on Oct 1, 2024 14:09:19 GMT -5
“Correlation does not imply causation.”. Quote for the day!!!!! ... until it is established through tests or experimentations. Gonna just toss out I prefer numbers and I have seen data that erased a lot and did comparisons of different resorts and how they sold over the years to not believe that 5.5 years into this that there aren't legitimate causes for Riviera sales being slow. There isn't just restrictions for some to look at (locations, point charts, room offerings all play in) but it is a major factor since the other issues are really not strong compared to other locations sold recently when you compare like for like. Aulani has its own issue of location and higher non subsidized fees. The desire of west coasters and eastern Asian population was over estimated so they did more than they should have. Just like cabins you have the negatives in no particular order: Location Transportation Room layout/offerings Amenities of resort High starting maintenance fees Resale restrictions Trust If it had half as many of those issues, it would sell better. As of now a dismal 1.6% sold is all you will get. This! ^^^^^^^^ Wasn’t Aulani the straw that broke Jim Lewis’s back ( and caused his ousting)? Disney will never repeat this failed expansion. Really it is the Parks that are the draw. |
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Post by helenabear on Oct 1, 2024 14:22:12 GMT -5
... until it is established through tests or experimentations. Gonna just toss out I prefer numbers and I have seen data that erased a lot and did comparisons of different resorts and how they sold over the years to not believe that 5.5 years into this that there aren't legitimate causes for Riviera sales being slow. There isn't just restrictions for some to look at (locations, point charts, room offerings all play in) but it is a major factor since the other issues are really not strong compared to other locations sold recently when you compare like for like. Aulani has its own issue of location and higher non subsidized fees. The desire of west coasters and eastern Asian population was over estimated so they did more than they should have. Just like cabins you have the negatives in no particular order: Location Transportation Room layout/offerings Amenities of resort High starting maintenance fees Resale restrictions Trust If it had half as many of those issues, it would sell better. As of now a dismal 1.6% sold is all you will get. This! ^^^^^^^^ Wasn’t Aulani the straw that broke Jim Lewis’s back ( and caused his ousting)? Disney will never repeat this failed expansion. Really it is the Parks that are the draw. Yep Aulani caused them to fire Jim Lewis (and 2 other execs). Sales were suspended and then resumed with about a 33% hike in MFs. As baymaxfan stated too HHI and Vero have their own issues. I think they were okay-ish comparatively but this deal with Aulani really hosed up ideas of branching out. They'd rather do the storyliving communities that they started I think. |
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Post by baymaxfan on Oct 1, 2024 18:17:52 GMT -5
As baymaxfan stated too HHI and Vero have their own issues. I think they were okay-ish comparatively but this deal with Aulani really hosed up ideas of branching out. They'd rather do the storyliving communities that they started I think. I looked into the story-living community in Rancho Mirage/Palm Desert. Wowzers!! Talk about expensive! They are pricing these homes at a 50-100% upcharge over market rate. And with that you get the pleasure of 1) living in a construction zone for years until the complete project is done, 2) no guarantee that the project will ever be done, 3) the promise of a central clubhouse that may or may not get done, 4) sky-high HOA fees, and 5) the ability to pay insane monthly dues to have access to said clubhouse that may or may not get done. Maybe the North Carolina one will be better. |
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Post by helenabear on Oct 1, 2024 19:43:42 GMT -5
As baymaxfan stated too HHI and Vero have their own issues. I think they were okay-ish comparatively but this deal with Aulani really hosed up ideas of branching out. They'd rather do the storyliving communities that they started I think. I looked into the story-living community in Rancho Mirage/Palm Desert. Wowzers!! Talk about expensive! They are pricing these homes at a 50-100% upcharge over market rate. And with that you get the pleasure of 1) living in a construction zone for years until the complete project is done, 2) no guarantee that the project will ever be done, 3) the promise of a central clubhouse that may or may not get done, 4) sky-high HOA fees, and 5) the ability to pay insane monthly dues to have access to said clubhouse that may or may not get done. Maybe the North Carolina one will be better. Not much better from my friend who lives near by and would have moved if they could have afforded it. They're not hurting for money either. Plus I really don't know how that specific area is fairing right now. Friend lives nearby and not awful but not sure how far really either. |
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Post by dlwdwdvc on Oct 1, 2024 22:49:59 GMT -5
Just because builders paid to use the Disney name ; does not mean Disney is building it.
I worry about future of DVC .
I took the time to read all the fine print for the new Embassy Suite Timeshare near Margaritaville Resort . There were no guarantees the ES name would remain on property.
And now Club Wyndham is “ selling “ for new concept timeshare to be built on the other side of MargaritaVille .
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Post by helenabear on Oct 2, 2024 6:23:43 GMT -5
Just because builders paid to use the Disney name ; does not mean Disney is building it. I worry about future of DVC . I took the time to read all the fine print for the new Embassy Suite Timeshare near Margaritaville Resort . There were no guarantees the ES name would remain on property. And now Club Wyndham is “ selling “ for new concept timeshare to be built on the other side of MargaritaVille . I am not sure what you mean by just because Builders paid to use the name, does not mean that Disney is building it? If you are implying with the second part about the Embassy Suite timeshare, Disney owns this property and has owned this property since the '60s. It is being built under Disney permits by contractors paid for by Disney. They'd have to annex this part out of their property ownership for it not to be Disney. |
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