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Post by dlwdwdvc on Jan 28, 2024 2:16:13 GMT -5
I was questioning the previous poster statement that Disney could also buy the Garden Walk to convert it to a Downtown Disney with this expansion .
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Post by helenabear on Jan 28, 2024 8:32:12 GMT -5
I was questioning the previous poster statement that Disney could also buy the Garden Walk to convert it to a Downtown Disney with this expansion . Great Wolf Lodge is 3.5 miles away from Disneyland. Gardenwalk is across the street. |
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Post by henrycpa on Jan 31, 2024 13:23:18 GMT -5
We are having an interesting discussion at work. We have a school that is outdated, especially given some of the new science in the Autism world. If I "invest" in it and improve to current technology it lets me keep serving my same population. No new additional revenue because of it.
Is that a Capital Expansion? I would argue no. That allows me to stay competitive in current market but does not drive any new business and in fact, just keeps me from losing it.
That is how I saw the Expansion in Epcot outside of GOG ride.
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Post by dopeyrunr on Feb 1, 2024 5:37:28 GMT -5
Disney pledged $60 billion in capital *expenditures* (not expansion). That just means spending money on fixed assets. So spending four years demolishing a fountain and replacing it with trees and benches: capital expenditure. Replacing the roof or repairing the facade on buildings: capital expenditure. The $60 billion (worldwide parks and cruise) will go faster than and not nearly as far as most people think.
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Post by tomandrobin on Feb 1, 2024 9:18:53 GMT -5
Disney pledged $60 billion in capital *expenditures* (not expansion). That just means spending money on fixed assets. So spending four years demolishing a fountain and replacing it with trees and benches: capital expenditure. Replacing the roof or repairing the facade on buildings: capital expenditure. The $60 billion (worldwide parks and cruise) will go faster than and not nearly as far as most people think. Correct..... It was mostly just smoke and mirrors, rolled into a PR hit piece.
Eventually, Disney will have to spend money. Universal keeps coming at Disney hard, yet Disney has no response. In fact, they can't respond because of the money problems they have right now. They have a lot of debt and really can't take on more debt needed to expand on a larger scale.
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Post by applegrcoug on Feb 1, 2024 10:26:56 GMT -5
Putting my bean counter hat on...
Let's say Disney builds a playground. By the time they buy the equipment, pay the freight, and the labor to assemble it the total cost is $1m. They figure it has a service life of 10 years.
They figure the life is 10yrs. So using straight line, the asset will decline $100k each year.
Now then, we have:
Path A
At five years, Disney rips out the playground and installs a tree and some benches. Demo costs $100k and then some new stuff for another $100k.
Here we have to write off $500k in value for the old playground. Then we add the $200k for the new project. Our net is a $300k reduction, but expenditures are still reported as $200k.
Path B
It is seven years after the playground is done. It is beat up and in need of overhauling. It is decided to paint it and replace the slides. All in costs are $300k. They probably write off the old slides and then the new ones are added to the depreciation schedule and there has been a net positive capital investment.
Path C
It is 12 years and they playground is beat up and making a new obstacle course by shedding screws on the ground. But, people still come and pay. It is now a gravy train.
From a bean counter point of view, most of WDW is in that C path. The longest term item is a building at 39 years. That puts MK and Epcot fully depreciated except for Tron and GOG.
Hollywood Studios is newer, so the buildings aren't quite fully depreciated, but most attractions are. Looks like a long term attraction depreciation is 15 years. So all the Syar Wars and Toy Story still is actively being depreciated.
Animal Kingdom is depreciating buildings but not attractions except for Pandora.
I dont know how it works going forward. The cost to do something new has got to be crazy expensive. Not just regular inflation, but regulaflation too.
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Post by Adelard of Bath on Feb 1, 2024 12:06:03 GMT -5
spending four years demolishing a fountain and replacing it with trees and benches This hurts! |
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Post by brp on Feb 1, 2024 19:27:36 GMT -5
So spending four years demolishing a fountain and replacing it with trees and benches... Having seen both the plans and the level of construction when riding by on the monorail it is, of course, much, much more than "trees and benches." There are building structures as well.
But I do expect that, no matter what they do, some will come and lament that it is "not enough." Nature of the beast.
Cheers.
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Post by nickys on Feb 2, 2024 0:40:35 GMT -5
So spending four years demolishing a fountain and replacing it with trees and benches... Having seen both the plans and the level of construction when riding by on the monorail it is, of course, much, much more than "trees and benches." There are building structures as well.
But I do expect that, no matter what they do, some will come and lament that it is "not enough." Nature of the beast.
Cheers.
Of course if they hadn’t ripped out the Commuicore / Innoventions building before changing their mind on the plans, they could have saved themselves a lot of construction - and money. ☹️ |
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Post by brp on Feb 3, 2024 13:07:33 GMT -5
Having seen both the plans and the level of construction when riding by on the monorail it is, of course, much, much more than "trees and benches." There are building structures as well.
But I do expect that, no matter what they do, some will come and lament that it is "not enough." Nature of the beast.
Cheers.
Of course if they hadn’t ripped out the Commuicore / Innoventions building before changing their mind on the plans, they could have saved themselves a lot of construction - and money. ☹️ Yeah, that's a good point. While the structure of the new buildings physically different, it didn't have to be and they could have used the existing infrastructure.
Love to see it called "Communicore" because that's what it always was to me.
Now, if they'd only bring back Sum of All Thrills...
Cheers.
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Post by henrycpa on Feb 4, 2024 9:05:48 GMT -5
Putting my bean counter hat on... Let's say Disney builds a playground. By the time they buy the equipment, pay the freight, and the labor to assemble it the total cost is $1m. They figure it has a service life of 10 years. They figure the life is 10yrs. So using straight line, the asset will decline $100k each year. Now then, we have: Path A At five years, Disney rips out the playground and installs a tree and some benches. Demo costs $100k and then some new stuff for another $100k. Here we have to write off $500k in value for the old playground. Then we add the $200k for the new project. Our net is a $300k reduction, but expenditures are still reported as $200k. Path B It is seven years after the playground is done. It is beat up and in need of overhauling. It is decided to paint it and replace the slides. All in costs are $300k. They probably write off the old slides and then the new ones are added to the depreciation schedule and there has been a net positive capital investment. Path C It is 12 years and they playground is beat up and making a new obstacle course by shedding screws on the ground. But, people still come and pay. It is now a gravy train. From a bean counter point of view, most of WDW is in that C path. The longest term item is a building at 39 years. That puts MK and Epcot fully depreciated except for Tron and GOG. Hollywood Studios is newer, so the buildings aren't quite fully depreciated, but most attractions are. Looks like a long term attraction depreciation is 15 years. So all the Syar Wars and Toy Story still is actively being depreciated. Animal Kingdom is depreciating buildings but not attractions except for Pandora. I dont know how it works going forward. The cost to do something new has got to be crazy expensive. Not just regular inflation, but regulaflation too. Despite giving up my license, it is hard to take the CPA out of the boy... I think a lot like you. The issue is, Disney is selling "experience" and while a good portion of us are willing to pay for that nostalgia I am not sure that is the market going forward. Just like with our new workforce, these newer generations (read customers) expect something very different. If you are creating experiences to sell, they better be fresh and innovative. And to be clear, I think Disney has hit that mark in both Pandora and GOG. I am not as much on Rise of The Resistance as others, it is a good ride but not to the level of those other two. I love Journey of Imagination, but it is a "filler" ride. So is Nemo. To an extent Soarin and Mission Space are fillers as well and every time I ride Test Track I compare it to Carsland California and feel cheated. And that is just Epcot. What else is there in other parks. I understand maintaining MK because it truly is nostalgia. But AK, DHS, and Epcot do not get the same pass for me. And Even MK could be upgraded at the old Stitch ride, makeing the Racetrack electric cars and tying it to some IP, and Buzz needs new tech. |
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Post by goofydad13 on Feb 4, 2024 13:27:18 GMT -5
Agree 100% (and also CPA who has moved a bit). Need a balance going forward as nostalgia alone isn’t going to cut it, and the need to have a shorter time to market also.
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Post by applegrcoug on Feb 4, 2024 16:40:10 GMT -5
Putting my bean counter hat on... Let's say Disney builds a playground. By the time they buy the equipment, pay the freight, and the labor to assemble it the total cost is $1m. They figure it has a service life of 10 years. They figure the life is 10yrs. So using straight line, the asset will decline $100k each year. Now then, we have: Path A At five years, Disney rips out the playground and installs a tree and some benches. Demo costs $100k and then some new stuff for another $100k. Here we have to write off $500k in value for the old playground. Then we add the $200k for the new project. Our net is a $300k reduction, but expenditures are still reported as $200k. Path B It is seven years after the playground is done. It is beat up and in need of overhauling. It is decided to paint it and replace the slides. All in costs are $300k. They probably write off the old slides and then the new ones are added to the depreciation schedule and there has been a net positive capital investment. Path C It is 12 years and they playground is beat up and making a new obstacle course by shedding screws on the ground. But, people still come and pay. It is now a gravy train. From a bean counter point of view, most of WDW is in that C path. The longest term item is a building at 39 years. That puts MK and Epcot fully depreciated except for Tron and GOG. Hollywood Studios is newer, so the buildings aren't quite fully depreciated, but most attractions are. Looks like a long term attraction depreciation is 15 years. So all the Syar Wars and Toy Story still is actively being depreciated. Animal Kingdom is depreciating buildings but not attractions except for Pandora. I dont know how it works going forward. The cost to do something new has got to be crazy expensive. Not just regular inflation, but regulaflation too. Despite giving up my license, it is hard to take the CPA out of the boy... I think a lot like you. The issue is, Disney is selling "experience" and while a good portion of us are willing to pay for that nostalgia I am not sure that is the market going forward. Just like with our new workforce, these newer generations (read customers) expect something very different. If you are creating experiences to sell, they better be fresh and innovative. And to be clear, I think Disney has hit that mark in both Pandora and GOG. I am not as much on Rise of The Resistance as others, it is a good ride but not to the level of those other two. I love Journey of Imagination, but it is a "filler" ride. So is Nemo. To an extent Soarin and Mission Space are fillers as well and every time I ride Test Track I compare it to Carsland California and feel cheated. And that is just Epcot. What else is there in other parks. I understand maintaining MK because it truly is nostalgia. But AK, DHS, and Epcot do not get the same pass for me. And Even MK could be upgraded at the old Stitch ride, makeing the Racetrack electric cars and tying it to some IP, and Buzz needs new tech. Just some good points right there. To tack on more...I'm not sure how much longer the nostalgia of Mickey and Donald, etc will stay. With all the new entertainment things, the demand for DD shorts just isn't the same as it once was and so I really wonder about their popularity and staying power. Coming from WDW yesterday, HS could use some more filler. There isn't much to do there except wait in line it seems. Agree 100% (and also CPA who has moved a bit). Need a balance going forward as nostalgia alone isn’t going to cut it, and the need to have a shorter time to market also. That shorter time to market...not sure how they can do that these days. Need to do SEPAs and engineering studies, wetland mitigation and on and on. I was speaking with a state legislator recently. Costco headquarters is in his district. He was saying depending on the state, it takes 2-5 years from purchase of land to shoppers for a Costco...and they don't need fancy imagineering |
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Post by henrycpa on Feb 5, 2024 10:41:08 GMT -5
I just saw an article on "Beyond Big Thunder Mountain" talking about possible new land expansion in an area that used to be zoned so they could not expand. That has changed. But it got me to thinking about all the zoning and environmental regulations in place now that did not used to be there even back into the 1990's....That has to expand the timing of start of plannng to roll out.
I will give them that pass up until they break ground. At that point the planning and licensing is done. to take 3-4 years to put a ride in place is just ludicrous.
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