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Post by helenabear on Jan 2, 2024 17:16:40 GMT -5
I’ve tried following the discussion on the DIS about the Cabins and some recorded documents, that detail how they will be sold not as deeded units but as a “use plan” of the trust. The discussion also includes whether unsold units at resorts like Riviera and the Poly Tower could be included in the Trust. What I don’t understand though is this. New owners of the Trust have home resort priority at all resorts that the Trust owns at. But if say 25% of the total points at Riviera and the Poly are included in the Trust, do these new Trust owners have 11 month access to only the points the Trust owns or to all the points at those resorts? If it’s the former then I guess it doesn’t affect existing owners. But if it’s the latter then that creates far more competition for existing owners. And how does it affect switching at 7 months? Will existing legacy owners still be able to book the Trust resorts and vice versa? Reading elsewhere, I have seen it repeated numerous times that that the end result is that there will not be more people to compete with so it won't be equal access to all resorts. I'm not a lawyer though LOL
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Post by sawickipedia on Jan 2, 2024 17:58:32 GMT -5
DVC is laying the ground work for the long timeshare game. This will help the resorts like VB, HHI, Aulani and the new Ft Wilderness cabins. @tom what do you mean by the long timeshare game? (not snarky legit curious to learn more)
Also I have thought for a long time DVC would love to ditch HHI and VB
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Post by BWV Dreamin on Jan 2, 2024 20:59:00 GMT -5
dvcfan.com/2024/01/02/disney-vacation-clubs-new-trust-product-confirmed-in-fort-wilderness-cabins-filings/?fbclid=IwAR2RWRFMz7TzRU6z5RuXhnaiKDUfsBKznuOaS1t2ERcpZpJbB1uhsmJevHQ_aem_ARoaHT7TjNOO7a6RGVDuMv4MyWPoDzeV-mVwtjhtt6-iTtCWWmoDuE70BR8FooytUs4Disney Vacation Club’s New Trust Product CONFIRMED in Fort Wilderness Cabins Filings Confirmation of Trust-Based Ownership According to a filing dated December 15th, 2023, Disney Vacation Development is set to introduce a trust-based DVC ownership product beginning with the Fort Wilderness Cabins. This new approach marks a shift from the current deeded ownership interest, suggesting a strategic pivot towards a more flexible and scalable model for future developments. Palmetto Trust Association in Focus The documents released include Amended and Restated Articles of Incorporation related to the Palmetto Trust Association Inc. This recent formation is believed to be a precursor to the new trust-based ownership structure. For those who aren’t familiar with this new venture, we previously discussed it here. i0.wp.com/dvcfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Screenshot-2024-01-02-at-6.40.22%E2%80%AFPM.png?w=1544&ssl=1The Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort as the Initial Focus At first glance, the plan seems to be to declare the entirety of The Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort to the trust. This move could indicate that only new future DVC properties will include a trust-based ownership interest, excluding existing resorts such as Riviera, Aulani, Disneyland Hotel, and others. However, DVC could potentially amend the plan documents for these resorts and move undeclared inventory to the trust at a later time. Multiple Trust Use Plans The new releases by DVC confirm that there can be more than one Trust Use Plan within the trust, each governed by its own rules and regulations. This could mean that properties within the trust are also part of a vacation ownership scheme, where people own or have the right to use a variety of properties for vacations, which are all part of the larger “trust”. The Implications of the New Trust Structure Until other resorts are added to the trust, the true intent of this plan may not be fully understood. As long as only The Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort are managed and sold by the trust, most owners will not notice anything out of the ordinary. The most notable difference is that nstead of buying an interest in a specific resort, DVC purchases will now take the form of purchasing an ownership interest in a timeshare resort use plan. Deeds issued will declare that buyers have a “Right to Use” the accommodations declared into the trust and part of the plan. Disney refers to interest in “The Cabins Resort Use Plan” multiple times in the recent filings. helenabear
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Post by helenabear on Jan 2, 2024 22:15:48 GMT -5
dvcfan.com/2024/01/02/disney-vacation-clubs-new-trust-product-confirmed-in-fort-wilderness-cabins-filings/?fbclid=IwAR2RWRFMz7TzRU6z5RuXhnaiKDUfsBKznuOaS1t2ERcpZpJbB1uhsmJevHQ_aem_ARoaHT7TjNOO7a6RGVDuMv4MyWPoDzeV-mVwtjhtt6-iTtCWWmoDuE70BR8FooytUs4Disney Vacation Club’s New Trust Product CONFIRMED in Fort Wilderness Cabins Filings Confirmation of Trust-Based Ownership According to a filing dated December 15th, 2023, Disney Vacation Development is set to introduce a trust-based DVC ownership product beginning with the Fort Wilderness Cabins. This new approach marks a shift from the current deeded ownership interest, suggesting a strategic pivot towards a more flexible and scalable model for future developments. Palmetto Trust Association in Focus The documents released include Amended and Restated Articles of Incorporation related to the Palmetto Trust Association Inc. This recent formation is believed to be a precursor to the new trust-based ownership structure. For those who aren’t familiar with this new venture, we previously discussed it here. i0.wp.com/dvcfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Screenshot-2024-01-02-at-6.40.22%E2%80%AFPM.png?w=1544&ssl=1The Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort as the Initial Focus At first glance, the plan seems to be to declare the entirety of The Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort to the trust. This move could indicate that only new future DVC properties will include a trust-based ownership interest, excluding existing resorts such as Riviera, Aulani, Disneyland Hotel, and others. However, DVC could potentially amend the plan documents for these resorts and move undeclared inventory to the trust at a later time. Multiple Trust Use Plans The new releases by DVC confirm that there can be more than one Trust Use Plan within the trust, each governed by its own rules and regulations. This could mean that properties within the trust are also part of a vacation ownership scheme, where people own or have the right to use a variety of properties for vacations, which are all part of the larger “trust”. The Implications of the New Trust Structure Until other resorts are added to the trust, the true intent of this plan may not be fully understood. As long as only The Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort are managed and sold by the trust, most owners will not notice anything out of the ordinary. The most notable difference is that nstead of buying an interest in a specific resort, DVC purchases will now take the form of purchasing an ownership interest in a timeshare resort use plan. Deeds issued will declare that buyers have a “Right to Use” the accommodations declared into the trust and part of the plan. Disney refers to interest in “The Cabins Resort Use Plan” multiple times in the recent filings. helenabear Good thing I don't give two snips about this Resort hahaha Honestly I'm not as surprised that this is going to start with this Resort. I really worry about putting the cabins with the rest of DVC as it is. I wonder if it means they're going to have two types in the future. Again very glad that I am not younger and wanting to buy into more cuz this is just not what I would want anyway. And thanks for tagging me on this because I hadn't made it to that site yet and I'm definitely not going to the other one but I've been trying to peer around today after they announce some stuff with the cabins
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Post by Brian5581 on Jan 3, 2024 6:28:47 GMT -5
Whatever. I don’t expect much of an impact overall and if/when things change we’ll be that much closer to the first resorts expiring, so we’ll just have to wait and see what happens regardless.
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Post by BWV Dreamin on Jan 3, 2024 8:21:41 GMT -5
The big question right now is will the new Poly2 be included in the points Trust along with the FW cabins? That will be a deal breaker for us and our DVC purchases will be over.
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Post by bakerworld on Jan 3, 2024 9:42:01 GMT -5
Back in the days when we could itemize our taxes we use to claim the DVC property taxes. Does the trust eliminate the property taxes because the purchaser is no longer being deeded?
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Post by helenabear on Jan 3, 2024 9:47:31 GMT -5
The big question right now is will the new Poly2 be included in the points Trust along with the FW cabins? That will be a deal breaker for us and our DVC purchases will be over. Can you please explain the refutes against what the lawyer had said then? I don't understand how it seems like old associations could not be added but new ones could and since Polynesian is not new, they cannot. Again when dealing with a company that was run by a crook, and until that crook is 100% removed from everything, I will not be reading that forum unless I am accidentally directed there. It seems like you were just giving two completely different reports of what's going on there and I'm confused.
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Post by baymaxfan on Jan 3, 2024 11:12:35 GMT -5
My speculative guess is that all new projects will be put in this trust. I thought Poly2 was already declared to be part of Poly1, so I don't think they can add that into the trust without a huge challenge. Now, maybe Poly2 isn't officially part of Poly1 yet. In that case, they could change gears and declare it a separate DVC entity and put it in the trust. However, there might not be a reason to do it. Poly2 will sell just fine on its own.
If we think about it, DVC is running out of "premium" areas to build DVC resorts. The Rivera and FW cabins aren't walkable to any of the parks. The new resale restrictions, cost per point, and points per room made things even less palatable for these locations. Putting new, less desirable properties under one umbrella where you'd have multiple choices kind of makes sense.
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Post by helenabear on Jan 3, 2024 11:49:41 GMT -5
My speculative guess is that all new projects will be put in this trust. I thought Poly2 was already declared to be part of Poly1, so I don't think they can add that into the trust without a huge challenge. Now, maybe Poly2 isn't officially part of Poly1 yet. In that case, they could change gears and declare it a separate DVC entity and put it in the trust. However, there might not be a reason to do it. Poly2 will sell just fine on its own. If we think about it, DVC is running out of "premium" areas to build DVC resorts. The Rivera and FW cabins aren't walkable to any of the parks. The new resale restrictions, cost per point, and points per room made things even less palatable for these locations. Putting new, less desirable properties under one umbrella where you'd have multiple choices kind of makes sense. Until the ink is dried on all the legal paperwork they will have for Polynesian, it isn't officially there yet. However, the intent is for it to be a part of the original association honestly originally as planned back in like 2010 or 2012 for whenever the first drawings were given to us of what the plans were for DVC there. Again I am not reading the one site but I've been reading others where people are discussing this. I'm not sure how easy it would be to add to an existing association based off of what I read from those who understand way more than I do. I'm no lawyer or timeshare expert. I am trying to rely on those who are more than I am just speculation anyway.
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Post by BWV Dreamin on Jan 3, 2024 12:06:18 GMT -5
The big question right now is will the new Poly2 be included in the points Trust along with the FW cabins? That will be a deal breaker for us and our DVC purchases will be over. Can you please explain the refutes against what the lawyer had said then? I don't understand how it seems like old associations could not be added but new ones could and since Polynesian is not new, they cannot. Again when dealing with a company that was run by a crook, and until that crook is 100% removed from everything, I will not be reading that forum unless I am accidentally directed there. It seems like you were just giving two completely different reports of what's going on there and I'm confused. They could amend the POS to include Poly2 into the Trust. There has been no concrete statement from Disney that this is part of the same Poly association. Not saying what has been previously said is not true, BUT there has been no official announcement. Until then, all possibilities exist as to what is going into this new Trust. It does make sense to declare the whole new tower Poly/2 upon declaration as this would fulfill all units going into the Trust.
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Post by helenabear on Jan 3, 2024 12:47:28 GMT -5
Can you please explain the refutes against what the lawyer had said then? I don't understand how it seems like old associations could not be added but new ones could and since Polynesian is not new, they cannot. Again when dealing with a company that was run by a crook, and until that crook is 100% removed from everything, I will not be reading that forum unless I am accidentally directed there. It seems like you were just giving two completely different reports of what's going on there and I'm confused. They could amend the POS to include Poly2 into the Trust. There has been no concrete statement from Disney that this is part of the same Poly association. Not saying what has been previously said is not true, BUT there has been no official announcement. Until then, all possibilities exist as to what is going into this new Trust. It does make sense to declare the whole new tower Poly/2 upon declaration as this would fulfill all units going into the Trust. But they did announce it at the condo association. Only one forum I have heard has been disputing this time and time again. The caveat given was just in case some weird legal crap pops up that Disney has no control over. I guarantee you from day one this was the plan. So this is a straw man argument for PVB based off of people wanting Polynesian to be two separate associations for whatever stupid reason. So again I will ask, is there some refuting from what the lawyer said about current associations? That would allow Riviera or Aulani to be put in as well. I'm really not interested in the very hypothetical argument about the Polynesian based off of what I stated above.
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Post by nickys on Jan 3, 2024 13:35:25 GMT -5
So again I will ask, is there some refuting from what the lawyer said about current associations? That would allow Riviera or Aulani to be put in as well. I'm really not interested in the very hypothetical argument about the Polynesian based off of what I stated above. Briefly, yes. There are some who are refuting what Hope quoted earlier. The alternative idea seems to be there is a over-reaching Trust, and within it there would be sub-trusts, one for each resort. Each sub-trust could include a whole resort or undeclared complete units at an existing resort. This would allow a distinction between buying direct points or buying resale. If you bought direct you would have home priority at all sub-trusts, whereas resale buyers only have it at the specific sub-trust you purchased. And only direct buyers would be able to switch into legacy resorts. This also fits with the language used over resale restrictions at the Cabins, and also where they say that any future developments at FW may be part of the Cabin “association” or a new one. The sub-trust idea is how they could take some of the undeclared units at existing resorts and have them included in the Trust set up. So there would be a Riviera sub-trust,an Aulani sub-trust etc. By only using undeclared complete units at these resorts they can amend the POS without affecting existing owners at those resorts.
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Post by helenabear on Jan 3, 2024 13:41:23 GMT -5
So again I will ask, is there some refuting from what the lawyer said about current associations? That would allow Riviera or Aulani to be put in as well. I'm really not interested in the very hypothetical argument about the Polynesian based off of what I stated above. Briefly, yes. There are some who are refuting what Hope quoted earlier. The alternative idea seems to be there is a over-reaching Trust, and within it there would be sub-trusts, one for each resort. Each sub-trust could include a whole resort or undeclared complete units at an existing resort. This would allow a distinction between buying direct points or buying resale. If you bought direct you would have home priority at all sub-trusts, whereas resale buyers only have it at the specific sub-trust you purchased. And only direct buyers would be able to switch into legacy resorts. This also fits with the language used over resale restrictions at the Cabins, and also where they say that any future developments at FW may be part of the Cabin “association” or a new one. The sub-trust idea is how they could take some of the undeclared units at existing resorts and have them included in the Trust set up. So there would be a Riviera sub-trust,an Aulani sub-trust etc. By only using undeclared complete units at these resorts they can amend the POS without affecting existing owners at those resorts. Thanks for saving me some clicks! I am curious to know who is actually right in the end. Again I'm no expert and I know there are a lot of expert wannabes out there so it's hard to know who's right and who is not. Truthfully what you were explaining with direct versus resale makes it so complicated I would want nothing to do with it. Might make me think about how I'm going to deal with adding on a few more for the tower. I really think this whole idea is stupid to try and add on to existing resorts though. It's complicated enough for me having three separate home resorts, I don't want to worry about having to really keep spreadsheets just to keep track of what I can do I hope the lawyer is right really. Mostly out of my lack of desire to keep track of how things are supposed to work.
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Post by sawickipedia on Jan 3, 2024 13:47:50 GMT -5
The big question right now is will the new Poly2 be included in the points Trust along with the FW cabins? That will be a deal breaker for us and our DVC purchases will be over. Can you please explain the refutes against what the lawyer had said then? I don't understand how it seems like old associations could not be added but new ones could and since Polynesian is not new, they cannot. Again when dealing with a company that was run by a crook, and until that crook is 100% removed from everything, I will not be reading that forum unless I am accidentally directed there. It seems like you were just giving two completely different reports of what's going on there and I'm confused. I thought the crook died or is there another person in the DVC sphere like the one who burned Kim?
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