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Post by BWV Dreamin on Apr 17, 2023 18:37:19 GMT -5
Don't forget when BCV was new they told it as a 2042 resort - and that was in 2002, thus only 40 years on that contract, and it sold out quickly. I think for simplicity sake, it is easier for them to have one expiration date. It puts poly within the 40 year span. Anything less than 40 years is a huge no, but within 40 it is manageable. In 2002 DVC was selling direct for ~$80 per point. In today's dollars after inflation, that's about ~$135 per point, but Disney is selling PVB at $250 direct. Even if they drop to match RIV that's still at $217 per point. The price has outstripped inflation by quite a bit, meaning the buy in premium for missing those 8 years of visits stings a bit more today then it did in 2002, even though it will have a couple extra years compared to BCV. Combine that with buying into the Bungalow point balance problem, and you would have to be crazy to buy in to PVB direct in the old association for the new tower. I won't even pretend to predict what Disney will decide to do here. Even if they didn't build a single dedicated studio in the new tower (you know they are at least doing lock offs, to good of an accounting trick for them to skip out on), I can't see the new tower being enough to balance out the PVB studio point problem. Do they think enough people will look past these problems and buy direct regardless? The new tower will definitely boost PVB resale prices if it's in the existing association, and I think plenty of existing PVB owners will take the price boost as an opportunity to exit, and most existing members will probably prefer resale add-ons to direct if given the opportunity. Does Disney see more value in shaving 8 years off their obligation to owners for the new tower, or not having to compete with an existing resale market for sales that will put significant downward pressure on what they can charge and still move points? You raise interesting points and love your inflation analogy. Also, welcome to Magic Owners! |
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Post by tomandrobin on Apr 18, 2023 13:53:05 GMT -5
Just as a reference almost 2 million points were added to VGF alone for the increase. PVB has 4 million points currently and if the guestimates are similar to what they are saying, could about double the number easily . Definitely room to spread.
The tower will be 4 million(ish) points.
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Post by helenabear on Apr 18, 2023 14:19:28 GMT -5
Just as a reference almost 2 million points were added to VGF alone for the increase. PVB has 4 million points currently and if the guestimates are similar to what they are saying, could about double the number easily . Definitely room to spread. The tower will be 4 million(ish) points.
You put into numbers what my poor words didn't convey well. But yes, I am going to guess based on a few things that it will be roughly 4 million more points too - so about doubling what PVB had originally (assuming same). |
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Post by rowrbazzle on Apr 18, 2023 14:59:24 GMT -5
What are the resale restrictions at VGF? Same as they've always been. Resales cannot be used at the new resorts, but the resort studios fall under old association. So VGF resales all work everywhere but RR. Got it. Thanks! I thought maybe there had been something new that I missed. |
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Post by mcd on Apr 19, 2023 10:28:42 GMT -5
What are the resale restrictions at VGF? Same as they've always been. Resales cannot be used at the new resorts, but the resort studios fall under old association. So VGF resales all work everywhere but RR. So theoretically they could sell new contracts at Poly that work for the new build and everywhere else, but existing contracts could possibly not work for the new build (for home resort I mean)? So much is up in the air. You folks convinced me to scrap any cheap Vero buying ideas, so I am back to considering a small Poly add-on or resale contract. But I am not doing that until the plans are clear. I really don't want to have to sell some of my existing points to fund the purchase of a new contract. I have 5 contracts that all fall under the same primary one so its so easy to book and track everything. With all the additional rooms, I wonder if catching Poly availability inside of 7 months will improve. If that happened then it wouldn't matter as much anyway. I expect those suites to be very popular, unfortunately. Maybe it will make studios easier to find. |
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Post by JaxFLBear on Apr 19, 2023 10:33:06 GMT -5
So theoretically they could sell new contracts at Poly that work for the new build and everywhere else, but existing contracts could possibly not work for the new build (for home resort I mean)? In order for that to happen, the new building would have to be a new condo association separate from the existing PVB association. |
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Post by mcd on Apr 19, 2023 10:38:18 GMT -5
So theoretically they could sell new contracts at Poly that work for the new build and everywhere else, but existing contracts could possibly not work for the new build (for home resort I mean)? In order for that to happen, the new building would have to be a new condo association separate from the existing PVB association. But isn't that what helenabear was saying happened with a new additional at the Grand Floridian? Did I misunderstand? I have very little experience with that resort. |
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Post by helenabear on Apr 19, 2023 10:38:32 GMT -5
Same as they've always been. Resales cannot be used at the new resorts, but the resort studios fall under old association. So VGF resales all work everywhere but RR. So theoretically they could sell new contracts at Poly that work for the new build and everywhere else, but existing contracts could possibly not work for the new build (for home resort I mean)? So much is up in the air. You folks convinced me to scrap any cheap Vero buying ideas, so I am back to considering a small Poly add-on or resale contract. But I am not doing that until the plans are clear. I really don't want to have to sell some of my existing points to fund the purchase of a new contract. I have 5 contracts that all fall under the same primary one so its so easy to book and track everything. With all the additional rooms, I wonder if catching Poly availability inside of 7 months will improve. If that happened then it wouldn't matter as much anyway. I expect those suites to be very popular, unfortunately. Maybe it will make studios easier to find. If a new association yes. If expansion of existing then no. If you want PVB I'd do it now and realize that you may not be able to stay at any new onsite locations. Currently RR is excluded from all resales. I have 3 home resorts (3 contracts alone for PVB) and find it easy to follow since they are all same UY. My most recent acquisition cannot be used at RR though. |
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Post by helenabear on Apr 19, 2023 10:39:56 GMT -5
In order for that to happen, the new building would have to be a new condo association separate from the existing PVB association. But isn't that what helenabear was saying happened with a new additional at the Grand Floridian? Did I misunderstand? I have very little experience with that resort. I think you misunderstood. VGF only has one association. They made all resales of the original 14 usable at all resorts but new builds. So any VGF resale (or any resale that is not RR) can be used anywhere but RR (RR resale can only be used at RR). That hasn't changed since they added more resale restrictions. |
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Post by mcd on Apr 19, 2023 10:52:10 GMT -5
But isn't that what helenabear was saying happened with a new additional at the Grand Floridian? Did I misunderstand? I have very little experience with that resort. I think you misunderstood. VGF only has one association. They made all resales of the original 14 usable at all resorts but new builds. So any VGF resale (or any resale that is not RR) can be used anywhere but RR (RR resale can only be used at RR). That hasn't changed since they added more resale restrictions. Thanks for the clarification. I definitely misunderstood. I was aware of the increased restrictions on resales. I have 5 Poly contracts that all have the same use year. Because some of them are direct and the timing of when I bought the resales was far enough back, I don't think I have any restrictions. Its hard to find small PVB contracts, and even hard when you are trying to match the use year. I would add another 50-75 right now direct if I knew the details of the new build. |
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Post by nickys on Apr 19, 2023 11:31:24 GMT -5
I think you misunderstood. VGF only has one association. They made all resales of the original 14 usable at all resorts but new builds. So any VGF resale (or any resale that is not RR) can be used anywhere but RR (RR resale can only be used at RR). That hasn't changed since they added more resale restrictions. Thanks for the clarification. I definitely misunderstood. I was aware of the increased restrictions on resales. I have 5 Poly contracts that all have the same use year. Because some of them are direct and the timing of when I bought the resales was far enough back, I don't think I have any restrictions. Its hard to find small PVB contracts, and even hard when you are trying to match the use year. I would add another 50-75 right now direct if I knew the details of the new build. It did happen at WL when they converted some hotel rooms to DVC units and built the cabins. They created Copper Creek, which is a separate condo association. Owners at Boulder Ridge (the original Villas at WL) do not get home resort priority at CCV and vice versa. Everything hinges on what they decide to do at the Poly. Both options will delight some people but not everyone will be happy whichever they choose. |
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Post by helenabear on Apr 19, 2023 12:18:10 GMT -5
I think you misunderstood. VGF only has one association. They made all resales of the original 14 usable at all resorts but new builds. So any VGF resale (or any resale that is not RR) can be used anywhere but RR (RR resale can only be used at RR). That hasn't changed since they added more resale restrictions. Thanks for the clarification. I definitely misunderstood. I was aware of the increased restrictions on resales. I have 5 Poly contracts that all have the same use year. Because some of them are direct and the timing of when I bought the resales was far enough back, I don't think I have any restrictions. Its hard to find small PVB contracts, and even hard when you are trying to match the use year. I would add another 50-75 right now direct if I knew the details of the new build. PVB resales are not hanging around in the small contracts. Many are hoping I guess that it will be same association. I think far more will be unhappy if separate. Plus it will go against the norm. Yes CCV was separate from BRV but BRV only about 41 years (end of 2000) when it started and CCV would have been 25 years. So that is for sure why they did that. SSR and AKV both just expanded was well as VGF. It's hard to know what they'll do though. |
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Post by mcd on Apr 19, 2023 13:07:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification. I definitely misunderstood. I was aware of the increased restrictions on resales. I have 5 Poly contracts that all have the same use year. Because some of them are direct and the timing of when I bought the resales was far enough back, I don't think I have any restrictions. Its hard to find small PVB contracts, and even hard when you are trying to match the use year. I would add another 50-75 right now direct if I knew the details of the new build. It did happen at WL when they converted some hotel rooms to DVC units and built the cabins. They created Copper Creek, which is a separate condo association. Owners at Boulder Ridge (the original Villas at WL) do not get home resort priority at CCV and vice versa. Everything hinges on what they decide to do at the Poly. Both options will delight some people but not everyone will be happy whichever they choose. Who would be happy seeing it become a separate resort? |
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Post by nickys on Apr 19, 2023 13:16:13 GMT -5
It did happen at WL when they converted some hotel rooms to DVC units and built the cabins. They created Copper Creek, which is a separate condo association. Owners at Boulder Ridge (the original Villas at WL) do not get home resort priority at CCV and vice versa. Everything hinges on what they decide to do at the Poly. Both options will delight some people but not everyone will be happy whichever they choose. Who would be happy seeing it become a separate resort? There are some Poly fans who don’t want 4 million points added to the association. The bungalows account for a lot of points but most people can’t book them (not enough points). Some people planning to buy points would be happier if they didn’t have the competition from existing Poly owners for the 1, 2 & 3-bed villas. If it’s a new association the end date will be further out, otherwise you’re buying points at a resort with less than the usual 50 years until expiry. Why would someone want to pay more for a shorter term? VDH is going on sale at $230 per point. If someone is faced with that price they may want more than 42 years. |
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Post by mcd on Apr 19, 2023 13:18:53 GMT -5
The only thing I could think of was the competition on non-Poly owners with Poly owners for those suites.
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