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Post by helenabear on Apr 19, 2023 13:36:55 GMT -5
The only thing I could think of was the competition on non-Poly owners with Poly owners for those suites. Honestly most aren't pressed. Many who bought PVB do not stay there anyway. Why? Minimum buy in was so low many bought small contracts and cannot afford the points there. I even have a relatively small number there but the intent is every year in 1 studio or 2 every other year. The 42 year argument is a bit of a stretch to me. No one whined when BCV went on sale. |
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Post by mcd on Apr 19, 2023 14:07:15 GMT -5
The only thing I could think of was the competition on non-Poly owners with Poly owners for those suites. Honestly most aren't pressed. Many who bought PVB do not stay there anyway. Why? Minimum buy in was so low many bought small contracts and cannot afford the points there. I even have a relatively small number there but the intent is every year in 1 studio or 2 every other year. The 42 year argument is a bit of a stretch to me. No one whined when BCV went on sale. I have a hard time believing people think much differently about 40 years versus 50 years. Middle-aged and beyond figure they will be dead by the end of either, and younger people can't comprehend 40 years into the future vs 50 IMO. |
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Post by helenabear on Apr 19, 2023 14:30:39 GMT -5
Honestly most aren't pressed. Many who bought PVB do not stay there anyway. Why? Minimum buy in was so low many bought small contracts and cannot afford the points there. I even have a relatively small number there but the intent is every year in 1 studio or 2 every other year. The 42 year argument is a bit of a stretch to me. No one whined when BCV went on sale. I have a hard time believing people think much differently about 40 years versus 50 years. Middle-aged and beyond figure they will be dead by the end of either, and younger people can't comprehend 40 years into the future vs 50 IMO. It would even be 42. When DVC started they had all new build until SSR with the same date. Aulani still is 2062. VGF is 2064 2066 is fine by me. I definitely don't need later. Some younger might care, but even when I bought in 2004, 2042 felt a long way off. |
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zernin
Waiting on ROFR
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Post by zernin on Apr 19, 2023 14:40:01 GMT -5
I don’t see how it doesn’t help fix the issue if the new addition is included with existing Poly. You are adding a bunch of new room types to the existing pool. If there a 2 bedroom suite option like I have enjoyed at BLT, AKL, & BWV, I will be very happy. It does help fix the issue, but it doesn't eliminate it. Of course existing owners would want the new tower added to the existing association. People buying resale may even benefit from it being a part of the existing association just because of the existing resale market. My argument is that, unlike VGF where being in the existing org is a benefit to new people buying in due to getting access to the existing room options and the relatively expensive resale, there is near zero benefit to new direct buyers if they put the new poly tower in the old association. Even if I expect to be dead by the end of a contract, the years remaining on a contract absolutely can and should affect the value of any given contract. Would you give a 10 year and a 2 year contract the same value? If not, why would you give a 50 year contract and a 42 year contract the same value? Add in the fact that existing association is net negative for new direct buyers at PVB specifically, and I think going with existing association will have a significant negative effect on sales. |
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Post by mcd on Apr 19, 2023 15:39:47 GMT -5
Of course not. But once again, you are 30 years off from having the 10 year versus 2 year scenario. I work in personal finance, and I can tell you that people do not think that far in advance with money and value. Not even close. I would say 5-10 years is about as far out as most people ever think. That's why its hard to get many young people to save for retirement. Its just too far away for them to see value in preparing for it. I 100% get what you are saying, but my argument is about the perceived value and nature of people. As far as the affect on sales, they can totally refresh the marketing on PVB and play up access to the entire complex. Lots of flashy pictures of the new build but also include access to the existing. I guess I don't understand the argument. You think people would be less interested in buying into an existing PVB contract that allows them to book anywhere at Poly versus a contract for the new area only (I just don't think most people perceive a significant difference between 42 and 50 years that far in advance)? We both get that you will have to complete with the existing points out there, but I had no clue about stuff like that when I started buying into DVC several years ago. I doubt the majority of DVC owners think about it. The folks that come to these boards to discuss this stuff have to be like a 1% representation. I will admit that I don't have as much knowledge of the history of what Disney has done with DVC. I am looking at it from the human psychology angle. Disney hasn't decided on how they are doing it, so there must be valid reasons to consider it as a separate offering. I guess there could be something there. I just don't know what their motivations are. Maybe you are right. I just don't fully agree with the way you think buyers are going to view it. |
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Post by nickys on Apr 19, 2023 16:00:03 GMT -5
Of course not. But once again, you are 30 years off from having the 10 year versus 2 year scenario. I work in personal finance, and I can tell you that people do not think that far in advance with money and value. Not even close. I would say 5-10 years is about as far out as most people ever think. That's why its hard to get many young people to save for retirement. Its just too far away for them to see value in preparing for it. I 100% get what you are saying, but my argument is about the perceived value and nature of people. As far as the affect on sales, they can totally refresh the marketing on PVB and play up access to the entire complex. Lots of flashy pictures of the new build but also include access to the existing. I guess I don't understand the argument. You think people would be less interested in buying into an existing PVB contract that allows them to book anywhere at Poly versus a contract for the new area only (I just don't think most people perceive a significant difference between 42 and 50 years that far in advance)? We both get that you will have to complete with the existing points out there, but I had no clue about stuff like that when I started buying into DVC several years ago. I doubt the majority of DVC owners think about it. The folks that come to these boards to discuss this stuff have to be like a 1% representation. I will admit that I don't have as much knowledge of the history of what Disney has done with DVC. I am looking at it from the human psychology angle. Disney hasn't decided on how they are doing it, so there must be valid reasons to consider it as a separate offering. I guess there could be something there. I just don't know what their motivations are. Maybe you are right. I just don't fully agree with the way you think buyers are going to view it. This is what I meant when I said thee are arguments both ways. A lot of DVC owners think in terms of passing their ownership onto their family. To me that’s a double edged sword because they’re then lumbered with ever increasing dues. But a lot of people do plan to do this. But also owners like me who don’t necessarily see themselves doing that will be thinking that they want as long as possible so that they can still sell when they’ve finished with WDW as a destination. The longer there is left when that may be, the better the value will hold. Going back to what I said earlier. If you’re paying $230 per point and work out the cost over 42 years vs 50 years, that’s almost a 20% difference. So you’re paying more for those points. This is why the debate will continue right up until it’s announced. Ultimately a new association means DVC can continue to drive down the value of resale ownership. If that’s what they want to do, then they’ll make it a new association. If they are having doubts about that policy they might make it an add-on. VGF was different, there were no new facilities being built, it was a simple room flip. The Poly Tower will have all the facilities a new resort needs. |
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Post by rowrbazzle on Apr 19, 2023 16:11:07 GMT -5
It does help fix the issue, but it doesn't eliminate it. Of course existing owners would want the new tower added to the existing association. People buying resale may even benefit from it being a part of the existing association just because of the existing resale market. My argument is that, unlike VGF where being in the existing org is a benefit to new people buying in due to getting access to the existing room options and the relatively expensive resale, there is near zero benefit to new direct buyers if they put the new poly tower in the old association. It depends how close to zero you put having access to the best studios on property at 11 months.  Then again, if folks wanted that, then they could just buy in to Poly as-is. As an owner at Poly I'd like to have the new stuff folded in. The flexibility for alternatives at the home resort would be nice, though we probably won't ever be able to use anything other than studios (just don't have enough points). I think mostly it's a just a feeling thing. PVB isn't that old. Disney cut back on the original plans and went with just studios and bungalows. Going all in now kinda feels like putting one over on the customers. Thanks for the money suckers, now we're really gonna build something great. And no, you're not invited. I know it's not rational and I was happy with my purchase before this was all announced. It still just kinda rubs me the wrong way. |
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Post by helenabear on Apr 19, 2023 17:00:00 GMT -5
Of course not. But once again, you are 30 years off from having the 10 year versus 2 year scenario. I work in personal finance, and I can tell you that people do not think that far in advance with money and value. Not even close. I would say 5-10 years is about as far out as most people ever think. That's why its hard to get many young people to save for retirement. Its just too far away for them to see value in preparing for it. I 100% get what you are saying, but my argument is about the perceived value and nature of people. As far as the affect on sales, they can totally refresh the marketing on PVB and play up access to the entire complex. Lots of flashy pictures of the new build but also include access to the existing. I guess I don't understand the argument. You think people would be less interested in buying into an existing PVB contract that allows them to book anywhere at Poly versus a contract for the new area only (I just don't think most people perceive a significant difference between 42 and 50 years that far in advance)? We both get that you will have to complete with the existing points out there, but I had no clue about stuff like that when I started buying into DVC several years ago. I doubt the majority of DVC owners think about it. The folks that come to these boards to discuss this stuff have to be like a 1% representation. I will admit that I don't have as much knowledge of the history of what Disney has done with DVC. I am looking at it from the human psychology angle. Disney hasn't decided on how they are doing it, so there must be valid reasons to consider it as a separate offering. I guess there could be something there. I just don't know what their motivations are. Maybe you are right. I just don't fully agree with the way you think buyers are going to view it. This is what I meant when I said thee are arguments both ways. A lot of DVC owners think in terms of passing their ownership onto their family. To me that’s a double edged sword because they’re then lumbered with ever increasing dues. But a lot of people do plan to do this. But also owners like me who don’t necessarily see themselves doing that will be thinking that they want as long as possible so that they can still sell when they’ve finished with WDW as a destination. The longer there is left when that may be, the better the value will hold. Going back to what I said earlier. If you’re paying $230 per point and work out the cost over 42 years vs 50 years, that’s almost a 20% difference. So you’re paying more for those points. This is why the debate will continue right up until it’s announced. Ultimately a new association means DVC can continue to drive down the value of resale ownership. If that’s what they want to do, then they’ll make it a new association. If they are having doubts about that policy they might make it an add-on. VGF was different, there were no new facilities being built, it was a simple room flip. The Poly Tower will have all the facilities a new resort needs. I will be either buying roughly 200-250 new or 100 or so add on depending. I honestly do not care about that math above. Not at all. Not everyone will since it is the Polynesian and like VGF people will buy to stay. Honestly in my massive FB group no one that I've seen has said they wanted it different association for 8 more years. I don't give Pete clicks but I could see it there. They tend to be a bit nutty about things though that don't translate well to reality. A lot off interesting people there. It does help fix the issue, but it doesn't eliminate it. Of course existing owners would want the new tower added to the existing association. People buying resale may even benefit from it being a part of the existing association just because of the existing resale market. My argument is that, unlike VGF where being in the existing org is a benefit to new people buying in due to getting access to the existing room options and the relatively expensive resale, there is near zero benefit to new direct buyers if they put the new poly tower in the old association. It depends how close to zero you put having access to the best studios on property at 11 months. Then again, if folks wanted that, then they could just buy in to Poly as-is. As an owner at Poly I'd like to have the new stuff folded in. The flexibility for alternatives at the home resort would be nice, though we probably won't ever be able to use anything other than studios (just don't have enough points). I think mostly it's a just a feeling thing. PVB isn't that old. Disney cut back on the original plans and went with just studios and bungalows. Going all in now kinda feels like putting one over on the customers. Thanks for the money suckers, now we're really gonna build something great. And no, you're not invited. I know it's not rational and I was happy with my purchase before this was all announced. It still just kinda rubs me the wrong way. As an owner I would rather it rolled in too to help lower the creeping up studio point issue. |
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Post by nickys on Apr 20, 2023 5:09:48 GMT -5
In general I can see why many existing owners would prefer it be added to the existing association.
From the pov of new buyers it’s probably more split, with a slight preference for a new association.
But that’s my 100% non scientific opinion. 😊
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Post by lovindisney on Apr 20, 2023 8:11:56 GMT -5
I have Poly points but if they make it 2 resorts like Boulder Ridge and Copper Creek I really am not interested in adding on more direct Poly points. Likewise, if they put on a resale restriction like Riviera I definitely am not interested. I bought at Riviera because we absolutely love it there and consistently stay there.
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Post by tomandrobin on Apr 20, 2023 9:00:59 GMT -5
I have Poly points but if they make it 2 resorts like Boulder Ridge and Copper Creek I really am not interested in adding on more direct Poly points. Likewise, if they put on a resale restriction like Riviera I definitely am not interested. I bought at Riviera because we absolutely love it there and consistently stay there. I firmly believe that the new tower points will be rolled into the existing resort......just like the new Grand Floridian addition. With that being said, the points will retain the same status, perks/restrictions as the original Poly contracts.
This new Tower addition will help bring a better balance to the 11-7 month windows at the Poly. Two bedrooms will be hard to get at 7 months, but studios will get easier....IMO.
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Post by BWV Dreamin on Apr 20, 2023 9:11:49 GMT -5
I have Poly points but if they make it 2 resorts like Boulder Ridge and Copper Creek I really am not interested in adding on more direct Poly points. Likewise, if they put on a resale restriction like Riviera I definitely am not interested. I bought at Riviera because we absolutely love it there and consistently stay there. I firmly believe that the new tower points will be rolled into the existing resort......just like the new Grand Floridian addition. With that being said, the points will retain the same status, perks/restrictions as the original Poly contracts.
This new Tower addition will help bring a better balance to the 11-7 month windows at the Poly. Two bedrooms will be hard to get at 7 months, but studios will get easier....IMO.
Let’s hope so because right now, VDH is dead to me…… |
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Post by tomandrobin on Apr 20, 2023 9:15:36 GMT -5
Expiration dates of new resorts are not worth arguing. It does not matter if its 50 years or 38 years (looking at you Aulani). I bought my first contract in 2006. In 2006, I was 40 years old and I bought SSR. The resort expires in 2054 and I will 88 years old. Fingers crossed that in 2054 I am still alive, healthy and still able to afford to travel to Disney World.
Most people buying into DVC for the first time are between 30-40 years old, with children 5-12 years old. The average length of a timeshare ownership is 7 years. I think DVC skews a little longer because of kids.
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Post by helenabear on Apr 20, 2023 9:18:58 GMT -5
I have Poly points but if they make it 2 resorts like Boulder Ridge and Copper Creek I really am not interested in adding on more direct Poly points. Likewise, if they put on a resale restriction like Riviera I definitely am not interested. I bought at Riviera because we absolutely love it there and consistently stay there. I firmly believe that the new tower points will be rolled into the existing resort......just like the new Grand Floridian addition. With that being said, the points will retain the same status, perks/restrictions as the original Poly contracts.
This new Tower addition will help bring a better balance to the 11-7 month windows at the Poly. Two bedrooms will be hard to get at 7 months, but studios will get easier....IMO.
I don't want to be so.... sure of myself? Only because if they are separate I will be selling OKW likely as I only want x many total points and buying enough for every other year at new will put me over. But I agree, and I'd be more shocked if they separate for all the reasons I've stated in the past. I also am thinking that the tower studios will be fewer or different in layout/offerings just to make it more unique. We will be 1 and 2 bedroom dwellers mostly. We only do studios for when it's solo or just 2 of us in shorter trips. I firmly believe that the new tower points will be rolled into the existing resort......just like the new Grand Floridian addition. With that being said, the points will retain the same status, perks/restrictions as the original Poly contracts.
This new Tower addition will help bring a better balance to the 11-7 month windows at the Poly. Two bedrooms will be hard to get at 7 months, but studios will get easier....IMO.
Let’s hope so because right now, VDH is dead to me…… I have zero desire to even stay there assuming my health improves, let alone buy in there. Expiration dates of new resorts are not worth arguing. It does not matter if its 50 years or 38 years (looking at you Aulani). I bought my first contract in 2006. In 2006, I was 40 years old and I bought SSR. The resort expires in 2054 and I will 88 years old. Fingers crossed that in 2054 I am still alive, healthy and still able to afford to travel to Disney World. Most people buying into DVC for the first time are between 30-40 years old, with children 5-12 years old. The average length of a timeshare ownership is 7 years. I think DVC skews a little longer because of kids. Agree 100% We were a much younger purchase compared to some as we bought in 2004 (26 & 27) with no kids. But we did OKW then and felt fine as we will be retirement age when that ends. Now we have CCV and PVB. I am pretty sure at that point they'll go to my son if he so chooses to keep them. |
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Post by tomandrobin on Apr 20, 2023 9:22:33 GMT -5
Just like the OKW extension was a one off, this is how I feel about the Copper Creak/Boulder Ridge arrangement. The gap between that at addition of Copper Creek was too large. The phase 1 of the DVC Poly was in 2015.....nine years difference.
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Then again, if folks wanted that, then they could just buy in to Poly as-is.
